the key to making Islam compatible with Mosque/State separation in Muslim countries is to declare Islam as the official religion, while retaining a lawmaking process that is not subject to theological review

This sounds like it should sound good but first I think we should have a definition of what constitutes theology and then, theological review. After we have a better grasp on what Mr. Eteraz means by those terms we can make a better decision if we should be making a “key” for that lock or leaving the door open to other possibilites.

Thanks for the discussion and stop by anytime.

wasalam

Br. BG, you wrote: “No, I don’t see. I don’t see how it fails to merit your label of approval.”

Maybe I didn’t explain myself properly. When I said I find the fundamental principle of Malaysia in direct contrast with my understanding of an Islamic government, I meant the issue of supreme sovereignty.

I understand a parliamentary government to mean “A national representative body having supreme legislative powers within the state.” And if those powers are limited by the Quran/Sunnah, then such a government would be Islamic. However, if the only limit to their legislative powers is the will of the people, that is where my Naeem Certified Islamic label will not be given.

“Are you doubting the sincerity part? On what basis do you presume to evaluate, much less guarantee, the sincerity of a nation of individuals?”

Basically, I added the condition of ‘sincere’ to imply that its the effort to attain a just Islamic society that is needed, not the end result per se. As long as the collective society is working to apply the Q/S, that is all we can ask for. Whether or not the Divine Will has been actualized is secondary.

I figure that mere application of the outer form of an Islamic government is NOT in agreemtn with the Sunnah, so an element of sincerity, taqwa, and tawhid are necessary.

Basically I see a fundamental difference between a group of Muslims who acting on their desires (which are obviously influenced by Q/S, but also by other outside forces) happen to enact legislation that is aligned with the Divine Will versus a group of Muslims who purposefully (and sincerely) attempt to extract the DW from the Q/S. Even if the latter group gets it wrong, I see that as being closer to the spirit of Islam than if the former group got it right.

Now does *that* make sense?

Allah knows best.

Thanks for your thoughts bro,
WA-
Naeem

Islamic State: Label vs Content

can you see how I question the label of Islamic on a secular government, whose fundamental principle (as Chandra Muzaffar places as number one on his list of Malaysia’s founding principles: “A parliamentary form of government based upon the concept of one person, one vote.”) is antithetical to mine?

No, I don’t see. I don’t see how it fails to merit your label of approval. I don’t see where one person one vote, especially in a nation where Islam is the religion of the state, is antithetical to “the sincere collective attempt by the leadership, the scholars and the citizenry to apply an interpretation most suitable for the local community.” Are you doubting the sincerity part? On what basis do you presume to evaluate, much less guarantee, the sincerity of a nation of individuals? What if half the country is sincere and the other half isn’t? What if the leadership is sincere but the followers are not? Weren’t there hypocrites and dissemblers living in Medina right under the gaze of our beloved Prophet, peace be upon him?

Almighty God does not judge nations on the Day of Judgment, He judges individuals. No individual will achieve salvation based on the government he lived under, but based on his actions. To the extent that *trying to govern* by what Allah commands is a collective obligation, the individual discharges that obligation when he votes his religious conscience.